|
Post by Popebenedict on Oct 18, 2007 18:20:31 GMT -5
Your right, I did use your names specifically. I did this not to "attack" you as you say, I did this because you two are the ones leading the against side for this argument. What power would there be behind me sayings someone like Bulbs or Potato? Most of the members here except you two, vaxx, myself and very very recently swing, are indefinite on the side they are on, they could really careless which way this swings, or at least that's the type of message i conveyed from their posts. I think you are more attacking me now for implications you are making about some bogus "vendetta" I apparently have against you and l00gs. I am arguing my point of view, using examples found in previously said text, and formulating, what i think are, intelligent responses to these opposing opinions. It seems to me you are overlooking other comments I am making to other people, so please, stop doing this and focus on the discussion at hand.
Your right, it was his choice to yell at her, but it was also HER choice to insult him. A fight is a fight. If they wanted to argue then let them. Honestly, was his post really hurting anyone else other than her? And in my opinion she deserved this. They should have settled it in a flame war, or both been punished for it. I understand Prime has a bad rep, but come on, one outburst in like 3 months isn't all that bad. He cursed, oh boo hoo, i think I'm going to go gouge my virgin eyes out now. He made fun of me, /cry, i think I'm going to go commit suicide now. Its the Internet, it happens. Scratch that, its real life, and that happens. Obviously SV doesn't feel that strongly about this, or else she would have posted somewhere here. Which implies to me one of two things. The first being she feels guilty, knows she provoked it and doesn't want to get yelled at or (2) she just doesn't understand what all the commotion is about, and really wasn't all that offended by it, and cant understand why everyone is making a big deal out of a little thing.
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 18, 2007 19:08:20 GMT -5
You know, after replying to my PM in a very civil manner, and leading me to believe this was done and over with, posting again was not the best thing you could have done. Specifically, posting in such a way to continue the arguments, rather than resolve things. I apologize for assuming some things about you, but I don't feel it's in anyone's best interests to keep this thread going any longer. Just about everyone's had their say. And I know I'm going to draw yet more fire for locking this, but it's time.
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Oct 18, 2007 20:30:48 GMT -5
Oh pfah. I'm not gonna unlock this topic, but if any other staff feels it needs an anti-lock, you have my support.
Seriously, you need to chillax with the locking. If everyone has had their say, then let the thread die on its own.
Democracy of topics that stay alive and don't. That's how message boards work. Locks should only really be used if there's excessive flaming and spamming. I see neither in this topic.
|
|
|
Post by Loogs on Oct 18, 2007 21:14:28 GMT -5
This topic is staying locked because it's fulfilled its purpose. People have already voiced their opinions and it's not changing a thing: Prime is staying banned.
At this point, all this topic is doing is hurting people and making everyone look bad. Everyone's attacking one another, and if we leave this open and let it escalate, this is inevitably going to turn ugly.
Therefore, we're keeping this locked. If you really want activity, don't waste your time here arguing over something that has been said and done, and go out and post elsewhere. Also, ranks exist for a reason, so any mods might want to ask any of us before unlocking this without our consent.
|
|
|
Post by Tout-Perd on Oct 19, 2007 0:37:03 GMT -5
You see, Loogs, Babs, I think quite the contrary to what you do about this. I believe this topic should be left unlocked. It's an airing out, a removal of venomous feelings and stating a lot of what has been left suppressed. It's like (since no better analogy can be found), defecating.
By locking this topic, you two only further contribute to the most negative image of you, that being two individuals who use their powers to silence all who criticize them. This may not be the case, but it ends up looking that way.
There is no better way to support a conspiracy theory then to deny it. I know that Steph's fragile to criticism, and Babs prefers to avoid conflict, but you two end up looking a lot more negative just simply closing the topic.
Personally, I won't deny that Prime should've gotten whacked. I woulda been a little nicer personally (3 day-10 day temp ban), and wish that whomever actually punished him had PMed me first. But I won't undo a ban on him. We just skipped one last piddling chance he'd have to redeem himself, and knowing Prime, he'd be gone before March by breaking some other, or the same, rule.
Regardless of what everybody says, Prime's gone for a very, very long time. IIRC, it is a board tradition (or mayhaps the old boards just didn't care), to allow members that were banned to return after a significant span of time. I'm not talking this year, or next. If Prime wants back, the soonest I'm even considering letting him is September 12, '09. No haggling, no changing. That's set in stone (Go ahead, write it down. If I intentionally give him permission to come back before then, I'll pay every one of you who holds me to it $10.), and even then, I may say no, or push it back until the next decade. (Actually, 3/12/10 sounds like a nicer number anyways.)
I will not deny that Prime can be a total asshole sometimes. Or often. Or even all the time, for some periods of time. I won't deny that his actions deserved a ban. (I wish that the Loogs flame had been preserved, so I could gauge that, as well)
However, I do believe that we shouldn't go and supress discussion just because it's a little hot in the kitchen. I will reopen this, and if anybody does get out of hand, I'll bitchslap them to next Monday. Besides, I think that my verdict pretty much finalizes things. (If a friggin' two year ban doesn't get through to him, then he's just not comin' back.)
Does anybody have the figures on the other bannings we had? How long until we let El back? How long until we let Prime back this last time? I just want to compare things.
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 19, 2007 0:38:55 GMT -5
This thread broke the most basic of rules. Respect, or leave. To those not directly involved, this thread was perfectly fine, just a debate about Prime. It was originally. Then it went more and more into attacking Steph and myself. If you can't appreciate the fact there were some really hurtful things said and dragged into this, I don't know what to say. This whole thing put me in a really down mood for the rest of the night. And do you know what really got me? When I IM'd a certain staff member to explain why I had locked it. I explained how it was getting personal and really hurt. His response? Something along the lines of "You should have edited it, I was having fun." Not "are you going to be ok", "I didn't know", or anything. "I was having fun."
I do believe that's all I need to say. If you can't respect the most basic of rules, I don't want to be here anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Damien on Oct 19, 2007 9:46:01 GMT -5
Firt of all I'd like to say that I am behind Steph and Babs on the ban. Prime has been causing trouble for far too long now and a ban is way overdue.
Locking the topic however, I don't feel is the best thing to do. People need to voice there opinions, you cannot stop them from doing that because you don't like the things that they say. I understand that certain people are dragging in other issues which really are not relivent to the topic and I can understand wanting that kept out of it. I don't think that those who are discussing the issue sensibly however should be stopped from posting because of what others have done.
I wish that I had posted sooner but you know what I'm like by now, I'm the 00ber procrastinator.
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Oct 19, 2007 10:48:20 GMT -5
No, Babs, my response was "I'm interested." Not amused. Interested.
Yes, I am making this public. Why? If people want to criticize me, then have at it. I won't silence them. People have the right to voice their opinions. They can make suggestions so that I can make changes.
Also, anything publicly announced on these boards is fair game for discussion. If you didn't want your personal life being dragged into things, you shouldn't have posted it.
(Plus, everyone who's IMd me knows that I take very little interest in your personal life; thus, I will not be asking how you're feeling unless you're confiding. I assume if you've talked to other people they've already asked you how you're doing, and you've gotten it out of your system, and it's just annoying to hear the question again)
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 19, 2007 12:33:25 GMT -5
I don't know who locked it again. It's pretty apparent only one person really cares how I feel anyway. And no, other than her, not a single person seemed to show even the slightest bit of interest in me. So go ahead and get your cheap shots in. It's not like I have any dignity after this anyway.
|
|
|
Post by hayato on Oct 19, 2007 15:56:27 GMT -5
Unban Prime, plz.
I went and read what I still could of the topic that lead to his banning, and I have to say (as a guy who has no real bias either way), that banning him was an overreaction.
Here's my summary-
MV: Hi, I'm MV. I'm back. Prime: Cool. I don't really like slow RPs! SV: Prime, you're a piece of shit compared to MV, shut up. Prime: (removed)
Now, unless Prime said something along the lines of "I SWEAR I'LL EAT YOUR BABIES," I'm not sure he should've been banned.
Just throwin' it out there.
Y'know.
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 19, 2007 15:57:25 GMT -5
And then to Steph:
I'd love to see someone fully justify either of those. (Edits are mine, of course.)
|
|
|
Post by hayato on Oct 19, 2007 15:58:13 GMT -5
He likes RPing. When someone (not even the person he was poking fun of) says he sucks at RPing, he gets offended.
He responded with a string of vulgar (gasp) insults. You could've just said "Hey guys, let's all cool our jets. :-)"
I do think there's some favoritism going on here. Yeah, Prime's been banned before, but he was baited pretty hardcore here. I think a lot of people would've reacted in much the same way.
On a related note, I thought it was weird that Lee posted something along the lines of "I would've probably temp banned him for 10 days" or something, and went on in the same post to say "But yeah, no way he's coming back for at least a year."
Wtf? ftw?
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 19, 2007 16:04:05 GMT -5
Lee never did like banning people. Not to put words in his mouth, but he'd rather throw a nearly endless string of smaller, almost meaningless punishments at people than to ban them. Had this been the first time Prime'd gone overboard, I can assure you the action would be nothing near what it was. If Lee were the sole admin, the odds are, Prime would have been only temp banned or something to that effect. However, yes, Steph, myself, and some of the other staff are not of the mindset that continually slapping someone on the wrist will solve anything. Although Lee didn't uphold our punishment without any question, he did agree with it, something he's rarely ever done in the past. This is a testament to just how much the staff as a whole felt the permanent ban was appropriate. Lee may be the original admin, but nobody here should feel as though his opinion is the only one that counts. He realized that the majority of the staff felt it was time, and agreed to it.
|
|
|
Post by hayato on Oct 19, 2007 16:09:17 GMT -5
Still though. Him responding to a flame with a flame is banworthy? Even considering he's been banned before, it seems too severe to me.
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 19, 2007 16:12:08 GMT -5
He's been banned repeatedly before and has had quite a number of offenses that went unpunished, not just vulgarity. If that's your opinion, though, I doubt I can change it, just present my views. I hope you at least see where we're coming from though.
Edit: This may sound biased, but it carries over to the real world... If you get in a verbal fight with someone out on the street, and a policeman comes over, you may get in trouble for vulgarity and leave with some sort of fine. If you're disrespecting the authority itself and cursing up a storm at the officer though, your ass is going to jail. It's a chain of respect, something which Prime has failed to adhere to for a long time. Again, if you feel this is wrong, I'm sorry.
|
|
|
Post by hayato on Oct 19, 2007 16:15:20 GMT -5
Me: He got into an argument. Baboon: The staff agrees, so we're right. Me: This is an overreaction. Baboon: I don't care. I don't like him.
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 19, 2007 16:20:16 GMT -5
Not at all. This is an overreaction from your eyes. From the majority of the staff's eyes, this is very much justified. And I do not hate him. I've pretty frequently spoken with him on MSN and he really can be a good person to be around. He also can be a real mess. Unfortunately, the nasty side wins out most of the time. In no way would Lee have ever upheld a ban on him because I don't like him, or even if most of the staff didn't like him. This was based on the offenses and his past record. At this point, I feel like we're going in circles, so unless you have some new valid point, I'm done.
|
|
|
Post by Damien on Oct 19, 2007 17:56:04 GMT -5
Red, Prime has been causing shit since day one of this forum. He has been punished and banned several times. This time there are no more chances, you haven't had to sit through the other crap that he's done. He may come across as a decent guy to you but believe me his real self is far from the image that he portrays to people. He is an ignorant, self centered, selfish person. He thinks he is above everything and it's time to show him that he is far from untouchable.
Prime is a damaging person, he acts without thought for other people. He may have been provoked but his reaction was far beyond justified. As far as I am concerned his ban is well deserved. The Exodus staff have let him off with far too much and it's time that he realised we will not take his shit any longer.
He has already told a staff member that he will delete the Exodus if he is not unbanned. I'd like to see him try because trust me the response will be 10 times worse. His I.P has been logged and therefor his ISP. Not only will I personally make sure that they remove his internet access but also that he is punished to the full extent of the law. =]
|
|
|
Post by Vaxx on Oct 19, 2007 18:36:31 GMT -5
Well first of all, I would just like to thank everyone who took my side and said that Prime shouldn't have been banned. Secondly, I would like to thank everyone who posted here for fufilling my initial goal, which was to simply get people to discuss this matter. Now that everyone has spoken, I still feel bad about Prime being banned but I do feel better.
Next I am sorry to Babs for two reasons. 1) I am sorry for any hurt feeling my topic may of caused you. This includes what I am about to say, so in advance sorry to anyone I offend.
2) You may see this as a cheap shot since things have cooled a little, but I feel I need to say this. Babs, no matter what I may think of you off the boards, on the boards and espesially in this topic, I have beef with you. Since Pope was on my side, whenever you jab at him I feel like you are jabbing at me. Everything he said was what I would have said if I was on. This whole time Pope was trying to stay on topic, however you were always straying away by saying he was attacking you and Loogs. This was never the case. He was merely arguing with his opponents. You are also way to quick to lock topics and edit posts, in my opinion. Everyone around you seems to think topics should stay open instead of being put under lock and key, which shows that you shut them without asking anyone else. However you said that all the admins should have consulted with each other if they wanted to unlock it. This seems a little odd to me, and that you just want to control things so that no one can make fun of you or your precious loogs. If those of you reading this are wondering why I have gone from my usually calm and in the middle attitude, to being more upfront and "attacking" Babs then the answer would be that I have simply lost the ability to feel most emotions. In conclusion Babs, I wish that you would man up and stick with the topic at hand, instead of just sidestepping the issue and trying to make people feel sorry for you and gang up on, in this case, Pope.
Once again Sorry to all those offended, but these are my opinions and if you don't like them you can shove them up your ass, because I feel no need to explain anything to anyone. Also if anyone wishes to fight me on my opinions I advise against it. I am in a bad mood and I have no problem turning into Prime and fighting till the banning point.
Also if there are any spelling or grammar problems, oh well.
|
|
|
Post by Loogs on Oct 19, 2007 19:20:19 GMT -5
I hope someone can see why we want this locked. This is only pitting people who are normally friends against each other, all over a ban. Guys, we're of a higher rank for a reason. We don't have to consult you guys when we're locking topics. Obviously we won't lock it without reason, but if we do, that's an action that should be respected. Yes, we will ask the people for their vital opinions on things, usually pertaining to board-wide changes. But if it's something like a ban or a lock, that's something the staff should be able to do on their own.
Oh, and Vaxx- No, you are most certainly not sorry, so don't even try to say that. Telling Babs to put his emotions aside? And then telling everyone to not fight against you just because you're in a bad mood? Doesn't this seem at least slightly contradictory?
Jumping back on the Prime-wagon: You tell me that telling someone to f off isn't a blatant disregard for respect. And please don't try to blame SV. It's obvious that she was simply trying to defend M&V for what she took to be him belittling her. He could have simply gone and explained the joke, after which I have no doubts that SV would have apologized, but he did not. He chose to explode at her, and since he was already on a short leash, we punished him by banning him.
If you're going to continue debating this topic, go ahead, but it's essentially crying over spilled milk. You're not going to change our minds about the ban, so what I suggest is that you stop arguing and tend to something less trivial.
|
|
|
Post by hayato on Oct 19, 2007 19:34:46 GMT -5
Guys, we're of a higher rank for a reason. We don't have to consult you guys when we're locking topics. This kind of attitude, coupled with favoritism, is why Prime was banned.
|
|
|
Post by Loogs on Oct 19, 2007 19:56:28 GMT -5
Guys, we're of a higher rank for a reason. We don't have to consult you guys when we're locking topics. This kind of attitude, coupled with favoritism, is why Prime was banned. Yes, Prime was banned because we felt it was in the board's best interests. Honestly. If everyone had a say in everything, then everyone would have "Administrator" under their names. And favoritism? I thought I already tore a hole in that argument. Prime himself[/b] sucked up to Lee just so he'd get special treatment. We didn't act upon whether we liked Prime or not: it was simply the most logical decision. Some asshat who's had a record of past offenses blows up again, you ban him.
|
|
|
Post by hayato on Oct 19, 2007 20:09:56 GMT -5
Yes, Prime was banned because we felt it was in the board's best interests. Honestly. If everyone had a say in everything, then everyone would have Administrator under their names. It's actually somewhat rare to find a post from someone who isn't an admin or mod. Mod and Admin posts make up easily 60% of the board's content. That being said, most people here can act with near impunity. It's actually a minority population that really has to watch what they say. If a mod incites a flame, it's no big deal. If Prime does, it's a big deal. [/b] sucked up to Lee just so he'd get special treatment. We didn't act upon whether we liked Prime or not: it was simply the most logical decision. Some asshat who's had a record of past offenses blows up again, you ban him.[/quote] Let me break down this statement: Not acting upon personal opinion of board member. Acting upon logic. LOGIC: Prime did something wrong. Prime is a bad person ("asshat"). Ban him. Do you see what I'm getting at? You are obviously biased against Prime when you insult him in the same paragraph in which you state that no personal bias went into this decision. Ludicrous! Shenanigans!
|
|
|
Post by Baboon on Oct 19, 2007 20:12:01 GMT -5
Aaaaaand what causes a bias? Repeated troublemaking and personal attacks against us. ^^
|
|
|
Post by Vaxx on Oct 19, 2007 20:14:59 GMT -5
Ok Loogs I never said people couldn't fight with me, I simply advised against it. Unlike before when I was nice, I now will have no problem arguing with anyone on these boards to the point were I am so angry and viciously attacking that person that all of you will forget Prime ever did anything wrong and that you will all forever hate me instead. I wouldn't care if they cried, begged me to stop or even quit the boards. I would not stop until I felt it was finished. Hell, I might even try to bring in their personal lives if I knew anything about them. Even if I didn't I could always lie through my teeth, but make it so convincible that I could fool at least one person on here. It all depends on what I feel like at that particular second. Also I never said that you should consult the lower members about locking topics, just the other admins.
|
|
|
Post by hayato on Oct 19, 2007 20:17:54 GMT -5
Aaaaaand what causes a bias? Repeated troublemaking and personal attacks against us. ^^ Fag. NO JK DONT BAN ME PLZ I always claimed bias went into the decision. I was just trying to undermine whatserface's claim that no bias went into the decision.
|
|