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Post by Vaxx on Oct 16, 2007 21:28:36 GMT -5
Is Banning him really necessary everytime he acts up? I know he can easily go over the top, but we all do every now and then. He's also the only one that constantly gets banned on a first offense. Some of you may not like me standing up for him, but he does have a point. Everyone here could benefit from having a little better sense of humor. While I have had heard things in the past about how he has offended everyone in the past, but he has never pissed me off, not even once. Really it seems that he will only attack if provoked.
Feel free to argue with me, however I think we should discuss this.
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Post by Beelzebibble on Oct 16, 2007 21:38:23 GMT -5
He's also the only one that constantly gets banned on a first offense. You don't see that "constantly" and "first offense" are pulling in opposite directions in that sentence? Prime's first offense is well behind. Some staff members are, to varying degrees, willing to give him a clean slate every time; others consider his offenses to be cumulative and will weigh any new outrage together with the outrages of the past. I won't say into which camp I fall, but I will say that it takes a lot more than a good sense of humor to ignore some of the things he has said.
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Post by ch00beh on Oct 16, 2007 21:39:54 GMT -5
He's mostly just pissed off the upper staff members. Which, ya know, are all the ones necessary for a banning.
I'd say the rest of the staff are ambivalent, but then I'd probably be speaking for no one, since I can only account for my opnion, and my opinion is minor disdain for the upper staff and minor disdain for Prime's actions, but minor is just about it. But still, it's disdain, so it's not really ambivalence.
I'm talking in circles now.
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Post by Baboon on Oct 16, 2007 21:44:40 GMT -5
This is in no way a first offense or us overreacting. He should have been permanently banned a while ago, as his actions then were enough to justify such an action. Also, I feel I need to point out "He's also the only one that constantly gets banned on a first offense." is quite amusing. He's had more offenses, and much more serious ones, than everyone else combined, including all the trouble we used to have with Gil.
I'd also like to say that it's NOT just the admins who are fed up with Prime. It seems nobody's willing to admit this in public, but it's not just me overreacting to him attacking Steph. This is a much larger issue and more people have a stake in it than may appear to the non-staff members.
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Post by Vaxx on Oct 16, 2007 21:44:51 GMT -5
Yes I realize that my statement was contradicting, however I was using it assuming that he was given a clean slate every time.
Also I know sometimes he overshoots the line of desency by a few hundred miles, however banishment is a little severe and ineffective. He was banned after I arrived, but he is still here. Sure he had to go through a few names, but here nontheless.
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Post by ch00beh on Oct 16, 2007 21:46:24 GMT -5
Well I meant to say that he's pissed off upper staff members and important old members. I forgot that last tidbit. Which is, ya know, slightly important.
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Post by Vaxx on Oct 16, 2007 22:11:07 GMT -5
Well everyone is of course entitled to their own opinions. I'm not saying that he hasn't done things that were ban worthy, I'm just saying that he always seems to be banned before he can apologize. I think we should wait between 12 and 48 hours, depending on how offensive the person was, before banning so they at least have the option to try and apologize.
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Post by bulbaboy on Oct 16, 2007 22:11:30 GMT -5
Well to be honest I'm neutral in the whole situation. Prime is my friend and so are those who banned him. Yes goes over the top, the only problem is he picks the people who are usually going to be easily offended (usually people he has pissed off before). Though sometimes going way to over the top can cause anyone to become offended. I will out right say that I use to be in the class that would immediately say "Ban HIM!" Now not so much. But I won't vote on this issue anymore. I neither for nor against banning him. I really do hate picking sides in situations like this.
That being said, there is something bothering me. Babs, why did you only delete the post that attacked loogs? He was clearly very vulgar and rude to SapphireVaporeon but you left it. Why?
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Post by Kuroboom on Oct 16, 2007 22:15:38 GMT -5
Yes I realize that my statement was contradicting, however I was using it assuming that he was given a clean slate every time. Also I know sometimes he overshoots the line of desency by a few hundred miles, however banishment is a little severe and ineffective. He was banned after I arrived, but he is still here. Sure he had to go through a few names, but here nontheless. He's never really offended me, but if the community as a whole doesn't get along with him then it's inadvisable to retain someone who rubs everyone the wrong way. I think we can give him another chance. He made a post that was intended to be in good humor and was pounced on. While that doesn't excuse his retort, he was only kidding initially. I can't say anything for his last post, as it was deleted, but I would like to know what it was that was so horribly offensive.
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Post by Kuroboom on Oct 16, 2007 22:18:32 GMT -5
That being said, there is something bothering me. Babs, why did you only delete the post that attacked loogs? He was clearly very vulgar and rude to SapphireVaporeon but you left it. Why? Perhaps there was a teensy bit of favoritism there.
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Post by Baboon on Oct 16, 2007 22:21:23 GMT -5
An oversight, Bulbs. I apologize, and it's been removed. I was too distracted by the whole situation unfolding, I suppose.
I think it's about time to close this thread. We've mostly all given our views, and the fact of the matter is, he's already been given more chances than are reasonable. I'm NOT someone who will ban someone immediately for being inappropriate, and never have been. This has been a continuous thing, and it's finally time to put an end to it.
If anyone would like to discuss this further, feel free to voice your concerns by a PM or IM. I can't speak for Steph, and Lee hasn't been around, but I'm plenty willing to explain myself. At some point, a person must finally be held accountable for his actions, and Prime's now there.
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Post by Loogs on Oct 16, 2007 22:22:27 GMT -5
It may seem to some people who take Prime's side that I'm not living up to my "keep the Exodus neutral" stance, but I'm not acting according to my personal bias. I'm acting in what I think is best for the boards. He offends so many people and annoys many others, so do you guys really think it's worth it to keep him? He really hasn't tried to redeem himself, and if he honestly was a good person, he wouldn't have continued to flip out even after we warned him. He knows he has a bad track record, so by acting even slightly caustically, he should already know the consequences.
I'm tired of us letting Prime go off scot-free every time he does something like this. It makes him think that he can do anything and say whatever the hell he wants without any negative consequences because he knows perfectly well that people support him. So, he plays US up as the villains here. I just hope that the Exodus will see our side of it for once instead of immediately writing us off as too strict or biased.
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Post by bulbaboy on Oct 16, 2007 22:24:55 GMT -5
I may piss someone off but yeah I unlocked it. Vaxx and Kuroboom are the only two non-staff members to voice an opinion. This topic hasn't derailed nor has it lead to any offense remarks. I think we should allow other members there say.
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Post by Beelzebibble on Oct 16, 2007 22:27:35 GMT -5
I agree. It is one of the few flaws I can detect in Baboon that he is often too quick to lock topics. I want to see more input from non-staff members who can't just take this to... well, I suppose if we hypothetically had a totally fictitious staff board that doesn't exist, that's where they can't just take this discussion to.
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Post by Loogs on Oct 16, 2007 22:31:04 GMT -5
Ah yes, if this so called "coffee table" really existed, they could go and discuss it there. Over coffee.
Yeah, maybe this should stay open. After all, everyone should have a say in matters, not just the staff. I'm moving this to feedback because it's more at home there, with y'know, it being like the Exodus's soapbox and all.
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Post by Kuroboom on Oct 16, 2007 22:44:10 GMT -5
Let's see if this thread will stay open/in one place long enough for me to say what I said in the shout box.
I was going to say again that it all started by Prime making a light-hearted remark and then getting attacked for it. Again, that doesn't justify his reply, but you have to look at all aspects of something before being so quick to judge.
Loogs, if you think he was being disrespectful I can see that. However, to me it seemed he meant no harm. It seemed to me that he was teasing her. This should have been clear as he referred to himself as "the insanely noobish Lord of Blades" as well as stating that he would "most likely be slapping the other members of the topic with a trout" if a thread went slowly.
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Post by Baboon on Oct 16, 2007 22:45:49 GMT -5
One quick note that most of you probably don't know, but neither Steph nor I banned Prime. Lee actually did. If anyone's views are that he was banned only because I overreacted to him attacking Steph, it's simply not true. I was going to ban him, but when I got to the admin panel, it had already been done. Lee was the only other admin online at the moment. I'd really appreciate people not going after me. Yes, I know it may seem I'm biased, and I'll admit I am at times. But, I try my best to not let any of that interfere. Prime was actively banned by Lee.
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Post by ch00beh on Oct 16, 2007 22:47:09 GMT -5
I really didn't see any offense in the teasing of M&V. Saph's post was flammatory. Then Prime's response was way over the top. But yeah, at least it was provoked and not just random belligerence.
Oh, hey, belligerence is a word. I thought i was just making things up.
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Post by Kuroboom on Oct 16, 2007 22:49:30 GMT -5
He was rather vulgar to SV, I admit. She stated he sucked and I do feel he overreacted. However, you can't say it wasn't provoked.
If I poked a bear in the nose and he mauled me, the bear may have overreacted but I did provoke the bear knowing it could maul me.
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Post by Beelzebibble on Oct 16, 2007 22:50:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I won't deny that SV legitimately insulted Prime's writing ability. Prime, however, took his response far and above the call to duty, just as always. Even though he was provoked, he didn't need to abandon all rules of civil discourse and just go berserk like that.
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Post by Loogs on Oct 16, 2007 22:51:31 GMT -5
But wild bears have a nature of ripping people to shreds.
Humans, on the other hand, have the power of self-control. You really think that after many confrontations, he'd learn his lesson and convey his thoughts in a civilized manner. But time and again, he chooses to violently eviscerate anyone who even disagrees with him, knowing that people would take his side anyway.
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Post by ch00beh on Oct 16, 2007 22:53:29 GMT -5
Bein' civil don't mean a thing out here in the Black.
Waait... we're not in deep space. Dammit. There goes that excuse.
Maybe Prime is really a bear. *shrugs*
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Post by Baboon on Oct 16, 2007 22:54:24 GMT -5
No, you would hope he would. After over a year of this nonsense, I know not to expect civility from him when he's in this mode.
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Post by Kuroboom on Oct 16, 2007 23:01:29 GMT -5
I'm not saying he was right in his attack on SV. I'm saying that he made a joke and was attacked for it. I'm not saying he shouldn't be more civil towards other members. I'm also not saying I'm defending him because we're buddies or any shit like that. I'm saying that he was provoked. That's the keyword: Provoked. It doesn't justify him flipping the fuck out like that, but he was provoked and yet no punishment to the provoker.
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Post by Beelzebibble on Oct 16, 2007 23:03:48 GMT -5
Well, we usually don't pull out the morningstar of discipline when people insult each other in -- God, I hate to use this word again, but it's late -- civil language. It honestly didn't occur to me that SV might be deserving of punishment until you mentioned it just now. That's just not how the Exodus historically rolls.
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Post by Loogs on Oct 16, 2007 23:05:37 GMT -5
SV wasn't trying to intentionally provoke him; she merely took his comment as him disrespecting M&V. This all could have been fixed had Prime merely apologized and clarified in a civil matter. But he chose to flip out and spew vulgar things from his keyboard.
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