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Post by StellarWind Elsydeon on Oct 26, 2011 10:22:34 GMT -5
What El said.
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Post by Testbug on Oct 26, 2011 20:38:14 GMT -5
Any suggestions for creating a pic of my fan troll? (aside from actually using MSPaint itself to create it...LOL; no idea where the heck it went on my comp for whatever odd reason) This for an art program, and this for bases. Between those two things, you should be set! (Also shame on everyone for ignoring this post. :C) ((Also also hnnnnng fine but I liked prostitroll and she was gonna do cool stuff. I mean seriously I'm fine with dumping the stupid slut. Lol fictional characters.)) (((Also also also if I had suggestions I would post.)))
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Post by {WW}BetaBloodWolf7 on Oct 26, 2011 23:16:55 GMT -5
I'm not going to change Cruo. I like him as he is and he is already established. Lee, you know just how established he is. Plus, you weren't able to find a good change for him.
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Post by Tout-Perd on Oct 27, 2011 13:02:30 GMT -5
Try to keep up Blood, we passed over that idea a while ago once we realized there were a few more established trolls than I had thought (for one, I didn't know that El and Belle both had trolls quite ready to run, and were attached to the ideas).
Now we're discussing axing trolls. Testbug seems to be generously forfeiting a spot, but there are still the questions of: Are Tangrow, Iron Mouse, or Loogs gonna support their trolls? Is it fair for anybody to have more than one troll?
There, now you're up to speed with the current debate.
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Post by Hamuu on Oct 27, 2011 14:36:20 GMT -5
So... does anyone have any gimp tutorials I was trying to use that to make some stuff and apparently I just fail....
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Post by Beelzebibble on Oct 27, 2011 14:38:53 GMT -5
What are you trying to do? Maybe I can help. I don't know Gimp inside out, but I've done a lot with it.
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Post by Testbug on Oct 27, 2011 16:17:45 GMT -5
I know GIMP fairly well, too! I do everything with GIMP.
Everything.
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Post by Hamuu on Oct 27, 2011 16:54:38 GMT -5
Well, I found someone who did God Tiers for every single character, I was trying to combine a few of them to make a potential God Tier for Royce but I just couldn't find my way around it or figure out how to do what I wanted to do.
I figured with some tutorials I could figure out the buttons better, see some examples, and either edit images better, and potentially start making my Househeld pages in it
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Post by {WW}BetaBloodWolf7 on Oct 28, 2011 16:13:05 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, who do we have who doesn't have a human character, but has a troll anyways?
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Post by Hamuu on Oct 29, 2011 11:54:32 GMT -5
Iron Mouse
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Post by Tout-Perd on Oct 29, 2011 22:32:53 GMT -5
That Biomech Artisan update... Wow. Nice. IMO, the best update since Flynn's strife. It adressed our complaints about the character (bA is a know it all? Pfeh, SBURB would beg to differ, biznatch!), moved things along, mucked about with time, did a ton of world-building... All it needed was a hilarious pesterchum conversation to bring every possible positive one finds in Househeld in one package.
Not to mention Stel's gorgeous art, which as Pohatu described, is essentially a soothing eyeball massage. I absolutely adored Owlsprite's design, and the touches with the transparent wings were incredible.
As a point of discussion, what does this mean our enemies are prototyped with now? At least Chess Pieces (interesting recursiveness?) and the Owl/Sentinel. So we've got those three influences thusfar... (BTW, the merged core imps were GORGEOUS designs, and a slick animation to boot. I actually paused the GIF, just to sit there and take in all the wonderful little details.)
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Post by StellarWind Elsydeon on Oct 29, 2011 23:22:06 GMT -5
Thankyou, thankyou. I decided that instead of sitting around on my arse and waiting for Tangrow to get his act together I might as well do this instead. ^^ This post gave me the chance to finally do what I was planning to do with Colin for ages - develop him and address the recurring complaint that he "knows too much". In truth, this was simply because I have not yet had the chance to do anything with him beyond a few pesterchum conversations (Believe me, I've gotten massively tired of drawing him an office typing on a computer). I seriously had no intention of pulling a Jade and make him 'all-knowing'. Hopefully, as I develop him more, he'll be a bit more interesting. I've also taken Pohatu's bit of criticism re: my panels being too small and started using a larger, more standard size. Makes any future animations I may plan a slight bit larger, but I guess FoS can handle the strain. Unlike botophucket. Lousy goddamn stupid botophucket. XD There is much more worldbuilding to be revealed: More about Occlum and the way it works (El and I have done much brainstorming on the subject, some of which we may have actually brought up on this thread before), about LoSaE and the events leading up to its current bifurcated state, about the little bits of foreshadowing (Who is this lady who insists on being completely covered? What's her deal? And what WAS being created and left to the machinations of Paradox Space? Stay tuned!) As for our protoyping situation: Right now our situation is similar to the situation in the canon following Rose's entry. In both cases we had a John prototyping once prior to entry (with canon John prototyping the maimed harlequin doll and our John prototyping a knight chess piece) and the next player in the chain prototyping twice pre-entry (Rose prototyped Jaspers and the Eldritch Princess in that order, whilst Colin prototyped the Owl and his Sentinel Figurine in an order I haven't decided yet). In the canon this led to underlings taking individual traits of all three (so there were underlings that displayed cat and harlequin traits, or princess/harlequin, or cat/princess or cthulhu/harlequin... the idea is what I'm getting at). This is, I believe, what will take place here. The imps used in my animation show an example of one imp showing traits of owl and sentinel whilst the other shows traits of the knight piece alone - mostly because I wanted to show off the result of an underling fusion resulting in something with the traits of both fused underlings. Underling fusion is a little peculiarity of LoSaE brought about by the composition of this land's underlings - they were created out of corrupted Syncrystal - which is something I'll elaborate more on further along the way. This means that it's unlikely that other planets will have underlings capable of such a feat - Although , due to the circuitous nature of the gates, I think it's safe to say a bunch of us would end up taking on fused underlings like this - mayhap ones that will be even more complicated or different in appearance - all depends on what might be prototyped! I may have to pull off some more timeskips as time goes on, if only because in order to engage in Alchemizing Shenanigans I'm going to need a Punch Designix (which I can only assume that Shiro bypassed by being a freakin' anime wizard) - but on the whole, we shall see. I still have every intention to portray Colin's entry into the Medium in some way, but I'll probably return to it later. XD
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Post by Testbug on Oct 29, 2011 23:58:01 GMT -5
If it's still the way that we talked about ages ago, I'm on the edge of my seat for it, still. XDDDD
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Post by Yoshimitsu on Oct 31, 2011 11:15:34 GMT -5
I'd just like to establish that Bustin's dreamself is not awake in a conventional sense of being awake.
When Bustin passes out, he gets brief glimpses of Occlum, and he sees himself doing things but he has no control over it. As such, he spends all his time looking for other people on Occlum to talk to, but never looks at the event terminals thoroughly and knows just about nothing about the game.
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Post by Hamuu on Nov 2, 2011 3:02:29 GMT -5
Ok, when Scratch revealed that he had played everyone, I went back and re-read everything he had said. Under the premise that everything had a hidden meaning and that he doesn't lie (cause we did establish that he is one hell of a wordsmith) there was one specific thing that got me that really bothered me. He claimed he was the perfect host. He treats his Aradia Ancestor like crap and loses it with Spades. And I was like, how is that one true if it's not... And that's when I terrified myself when the next thought. I was like what if he is a literal host to something. I thought about the fact that puppets can't do anything without some inside them. Then I thought about him wanting to die and that's when it all came together, he had to die. Then when I thought about it I figured one of two things - He either was Lord English and needed the events to happen in order to "unlock himself" or Lord English would emerge from him. So I was really sure of myself but at the same time it felt like I was grasping at straws. I feel like a fuckwit now. However browsing the Forums showed me something I had forgotten, so for every one who has watched the interrmission. Check this out
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Post by StellarWind Elsydeon on Nov 2, 2011 3:07:24 GMT -5
... I wonder now if the whole introduction of Fiduspawn was meant to allude to that. Host Plushes and all. (Most likely a coincidence because lol alien/pokemon parody but still!) Somehow I doubt there's a connection - it's probably coincidence brought by use of the similar stock footage. XD But then... if Betty Crocker is indeed the Condesce and the Condesce serves as Lord English's Witch... Herp. Although, consider it was said that "The Condesce will serve as her new master's witch, carrying out his work in the places he cannot reach." Which means that if Betty Crocker is the Condesce then Lord English had no access to the Human universe, and he needed her to orchestrate the events of the human session because of how deeply linked it was to bringing HIM into being in the Troll session. Jegus christbuckets.
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Post by ch00beh on Nov 2, 2011 3:09:22 GMT -5
there was a more obvious hint that Hussie dropped in his explanation of the flashes, in that Doc Scratch loves little girls and Lord English loves taking advantage of women.
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Post by Tout-Perd on Nov 2, 2011 4:20:10 GMT -5
Well, since Cascade, I'd had a feeling that Gamzee was actually Lord English, and that the "Suckers" line was basically a "Here you go boss, done as you well know by now." That and it'd give delicious irony to the whole Karkat being the Troll Messiah if his "Moirail" was basically Lord English laying low for a while. But I guess my theory was totally off. We can't all be winners.
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Post by StellarWind Elsydeon on Nov 2, 2011 5:06:10 GMT -5
Well, Gamzee created Lil' Cal by planting the fear of Lil' Cal in Dave's subconscious, which means he's partially responsible for actually creating the vessel for English's entrance into the Troll Universe.
And he also carried Lord English's Genetic Code within his dark subconscious (which was only released in the timeline where he killed everyone and Karkat's computer didn't explode). It occurs to me that the 'first guardian' code was contained exclusively in the t1ck t0ck 8r8k H34DS code. It was said that all first guardians share a common genetic code. If so, why did Scratch require more than the code of the four FLARP manuals (who, from what it seems, measure up TOGETHER to roughly the same length as Rose's MEOW diary)? Unless, of course, the honk HONK code, significantly longer and taking up a huge freakin' ~ATH manual, is the code 'activating' Lord English only. This is supported partially by his HONK HONKing at the end of the latest flash.
So in a way, he is largely responsible for the coming of Lord English as a whole - whose arrival, foretold by the glitch that forced the original Trolls to initiate the Scratch, led to the very chain of events orchestrated by himself (through the machinations of Doc Scratch and The Handmaid) that was responsible to the ENTIRE BLOODY PLOT ARC.
Which explains why Gamzee's the most important character in Homestuck.
This only lends further credit to the idea that Betty Crocker is LE's Witch, who orchestrated events in the original human session (mostly by screwing with Nanna and Grandpa) to make sure they happen as they did - as manipulation of both the human and troll sessions was needed to allow Lord English to enter the Troll Universe to begin with.
Of course it could all be wild conjecture and red herrings, but gog damnit Hussie.
(On a side note, could LE's arrival be the Subjuggulators' prophecized VAST HONK?)
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Post by Testbug on Nov 2, 2011 14:09:54 GMT -5
...
I thought Cascade was saying that when he said "The most important character views blah blah blah beginning" he wasn't talking about Gamzee, but Doc Scratch, who was watching the Green Sun's birth at the same time Gamzee was watching the Jade/Becsprite prototype.
omg this turned from Househeld into Homestuck conversation so quickly.
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Post by Tout-Perd on Nov 2, 2011 19:52:57 GMT -5
Yeah, Lord English is pretty clearly the Vast Honk prophesied by the Subjugglators.
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Post by Beelzebibble on Nov 3, 2011 0:17:13 GMT -5
All right, guys, if I may bring this back to Househeld for a moment, I need some help. (We should really just have a Homestuck discussion thread too.)
The EoA really tossed a monkey wrench into my plans for Flynn's thread of the story. You might remember that my original idea was for Flynn's sprite/other game constructs to inform him that their session had been appointed an additional duty alongside their goal of creating a new universe. Too many failed Sburb sessions had left too many barren Incipispheres hanging uselessly in paradox space, and our purpose would be to cross into some of these null sessions and activate the Tumor in each, wiping it totally clean.
There would be three sessions we'd visit in the story: first, a session where all the alien players had died in the course of completing the game (kind of sad, but pretty obviously easy to destroy that one). Second, a session where the Prospitians had died before entering the Medium, leaving only the Dersites to fall prey to the horrorterrors' whispers and go murderously insane (quite a bit more wrenching, but still: clearing the session would be more humane than keeping their ruined minds going indefinitely). And finally we'd make contact with the trolls, in a session apparently going quite swimmingly at present, but in which the players were supposedly destined to lose against their Black King and be slain. Then, cue all the real moral quandaries and infighting, with Flynn quite possibly left the only one still committed to carrying out their mission and fulfilling his role as the hero of Decay.
That was the idea. But finding out that we've been misled this whole time about the Tumor really screws that up. I mean, sure, it's still nominally a bomb, but it acts way differently than the reader was meant to think, and now I'm not sure what to do. I still think there's hope for this plot idea, but all the options I can think of present problems:
- Change the premise so that instead of activating Tumors, we're causing Scratches instead. This is probably the path of least resistance, but it doesn't sit all that well with me. It's just not as successful a setup for ethical tension and conflict when you're resetting sessions instead of wiping them completely. Sure, why should the other kids care? Scratch 'em all, Flynn! Kinda lame.
- Keep the original premise, allowing that the Homestuck kids' Tumor is special. This kind of makes sense if you ask why every Sburb session everywhere would need to have a bomb capable of creating the Green Sun. The Homestuck kids have a special place as those paradoxically destined to create the Green Sun, but otherwise, it already exists relative to every other session; why would other sessions' Tumors need to do the same thing? So there's hope for the idea that other sessions' Tumors really are just Incipisphere bombs. The problem is that this argument also lends credence to the idea that maybe other sessions just don't contain Tumors at all, in which case, fuck.
- Keep the original premise and run with the EoA reveal. This is so crazy it's kind of endearing. Stick with the Tumor plan, and instead of retreating from the EoA reveal, embrace it. Sburb wants our players to go activate the Tumors so it can make multiple Green Suns. Maybe it's trying to assemble a god damned Green Galaxy. Why?? Good question! That's the problem here. The idea might be that multiple Green Suns would further empower First Guardians, but they're already pretty friggin' powerful and what would be the motive behind bolstering them even further, anyway? This option is barely feasible at all, I only include it because it's too compellingly bonkers to ignore.
What do you guys think?
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Post by ch00beh on Nov 3, 2011 0:38:08 GMT -5
I like the last one, but the second one makes the most sense to me.
Although, I'm trying to justify with words why the kids/trolls were a special case, but I can't think of a particularly strong reason why there can't be multiple green suns from a mechanical standpoint.
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Post by StellarWind Elsydeon on Nov 3, 2011 2:47:16 GMT -5
I have an alternative idea - let's Scratch the idea of tumors altogether and make our OWN bomb.
It's obvious that the Tumor is a feature special to a very specific flaw, which renders the water sphere at the heart of the battlefield barren instead, thus not giving the genesis frog its pond. It seems heavily hinted that the Tumor (which turns out to be powered by the destruction of two universes) was formed by Paradox Space specifically for the creation OF the Green Sun (Remember that Rose had glyphs of the Green Sun on her planet). For that end, the human universe had to be rendered cancerous, and for that end all the weird shit with Lord English and Doc Scratch manipulating the Troll session had to happen, too. The general consensus re: Paradox Space is that everything that happens in it happens for a reason - and as the First Guardians exist (canonically) for every planet destined for sentient life in any universe - I can only assume that's when it was SUPPOSED to form at some point. Paradox Space moves in mysterious ways. XD
But anyway. Our session isn't a natural one - there are far too many anomalies. None of us are the typical sort of players Sburb typically chooses, our Time player is Prospitian while our Space player is Dersite (which alone seems like cause for alarm - why would a person charged with Paradox Pokemon Frog Breeding sleep on a world that despises frogs and opposes their creation?) and a lot of signs seem to show that something has gone terribly wrong with the process of the session's initiation - and I wouldn't be surprised if whatever this something is, it's also responsible for the session's perceived purpose as manifested through Flynn.
So, instead of relying on a mechanism of dubious presence in other to-be-null sessions... I reckon we need our own session-cracker bomb - A Nullifier, if you will - bits and pieces on information re: which could probably be scattered on Flynn's planet (like bits and pieces of information on The Green Sun could be found on Rose's) as he goes through his own quest. Perhaps his puzzles will allow him to find the code for it before we even get the ability to alternate between sessions, and some great artifact-machine-temple-thing for creating them exclusively could be unlocked once he finds all the pieces of the code?
This is mostly the Hero of Decay's gig, after all. XD
I think it also may be worth considering the cosmology of Paradox Space.
If I understand this correctly, each Genesis Frog (Universe) exists in a pond-sphere at the heart of an Incipisphere's fully prototyped Skaia. When a new session starts a new Incipisphere is formed elsewhere in paradox space (which can mean in time as well as space), with a new Skaia (with a basic battlefield but no frog yet), Prospit and Derse. The new Incipisphere is still tied to the planet of the new Incipisphere's 'players' via Skaia - Skaia's defense mechanism lobs the veil meteors flung at it by the Reckoning back to the players' original universe (Exiles are also sent to the original universe, likely through Skaian portals too).
I would assume that once players fail to stop the reckoning (losing to the Black King, losing players pre-entry without prototyping the battlefield fully, etc etc) and fail to initiate a scratch to 'reset' the conditions of the session, Skaia is destroyed... but so is the Veil.
The Veil being the 'border' of the Incipisphere to begin with, like a cell membrane of sorts. with Derse sort of floating along its edge, kind of like an integral membrane protein. With the Veil gone and a session declared null, I would only assume there is nothing stopping Paradox Space from erasing the session - possibly the Horrorterrors and monsters of the furthest ring reclaim the Incipisphere and clean out the remains of the session.
At least, that's how it seems to me. Which, on the whole, makes one wonder about how the could dead sessions 'pile up' like that at all: this suggests even further that something else may be behind our session. Something sinister. Viral, almost. Or perhaps a better analogy would be that of an autoimmune disease: something in the session's "DNA" so to speak has changed which makes it attack other sessions (which may be considered 'self') as a threat. Outside manipulation? Or maybe something DEEPER?
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Post by The Evil Biscuit on Nov 3, 2011 9:52:05 GMT -5
a BACTERIUM, perhaps?!?
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Post by Beelzebibble on Nov 3, 2011 10:04:15 GMT -5
So, instead of relying on a mechanism of dubious presence in other to-be-null sessions... I reckon we need our own session-cracker bomb - A Nullifier, if you will - bits and pieces on information re: which could probably be scattered on Flynn's planet (like bits and pieces of information on The Green Sun could be found on Rose's) as he goes through his own quest. Perhaps his puzzles will allow him to find the code for it before we even get the ability to alternate between sessions, and some great artifact-machine-temple-thing for creating them exclusively could be unlocked once he finds all the pieces of the code? Ooh I am liking these two thoughts. EDIT: I seem to recall Stel tossing out at one point the idea of a First Guardian that was omnipresent instead of omnipotent or omniscient, an amorphous cloud of something or other... Maybe there's a connection to be drawn here?
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