|
Post by Bub@ on Nov 2, 2010 18:22:28 GMT -5
She works at my local 7-Eleven. She's beautiful, smart, cute. She's one of the nicest girls I've known. It's the whole package, basically. I've been seeing her for over 2 or 3 months now, she knows me and we talk whenever she has free time. Not in a creepy stalker kind of way, but I eat some hot dogs there once or twice a week, and we chat about stuff. We get along really well.
I finally made up my mind, and I was ready to ask her out.
*Cue dramatic music* Until I found out she had a boyfriend (she could've mention it, like a month ago, dammit). I was kinda sad (nah, I was pretty crushed actually haha), so I stopped showing up at the store for like 2 weeks. I was driving by one day, and decided to stop, I kinda missed her. Kinda hard not to when I drive by it every day. And so I did... she asked me why I stopped showing up. So I told her the truth.
"I was going to ask you out, but I found out you had a boyfriend, and I got kinda sad"
She makes the cutest guilty face, "awww"s me, and tells me not to be sad. I told her it was a relief that I could finally tell her, and told her I was better and not that sad anymore anyway.
And, that could've been over. But it's not. She could've made a million excuses: boyfriend, school, work, etc. But she didn't.
She pauses for a few seconds, and tells me "Well... we could still go out as friends if you want to?" And so, I instinctively ask her, with a big smile on my face "Okay then, would you like to go out with me as friends, one of these days if you're not too busy?"
She nods, says yes, and smiles. I swear, she's one the cutest girl I've met. I ask for her phone number a few minutes afterwards, she gives it to me. I leave, happy of what has just transcurred.
That was last Saturday. She had her weekend booked up, so I just didn't ask her. The stupid waiting game and all that, right? Besides, she's busy as hell. She can probably only go out two days a week anyway, at most.
Today, for the first time since I've met her, her boyfriend came in. They didn't say hi or anything, she just told him "here so early? the next shift person isn't here yet". I was paying and about to leave, but I knew it was him. "Your boyfriend?" I asked. "Yes", she nodded, with a half-smile. I could tell she felt a bit uncomfortable, maybe 'cause she knew how I felt.
Seeing him there, it all kinda sunk in. She has a boyfriend. And it's probably staying that way for a while. I mean, I know I wouldn't leave her. And even if I do become her friend, that doesn't guarantee me anything. But somehow, I have no doubt in my heart that I could be with her... if she didn't have someone already. It's the first time I've felt this way, as I'm usually not very self-confident. I don't believe in "Ms. Right", but I certainly know we're very compatible. I have this feeling things aren't going that well between them, but it could just be my self-delusion. I mean, it was her idea, I wasn't even meaning to ask her until she suggested it...
Should I still be her friend even though she might never end things up with him, and risk knowing she's with her and getting hurt in the process? Or should I just give it up and leave things as they are, and not get in the middle of anything?
So... selfish me wants some outside, unbiased opinions. So I came back to the place I always come back to. So please, Exy, will you help out this old man with his troubles?
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 2, 2010 18:36:36 GMT -5
show her your wang.
by that, i mean you are friend zoned, and you will not be moving from there. I'm sorry. It happens to all of us at least once in our lives. I am an expert at it (it is getting friend zoned), though, so yeah. The girl right now is basically looking for a male bff, not a potential new bf.
Waiting never really works, I've found. It is terrible.
So. Stay friends with her if you really do think she'd make a good friend, not if you want to get in her pants, because that is a terrible basis for friendship anyway.
But. The problem i see with this is if you start avoiding the 7/11, it will be awkward. It will be awkward no matter what. I recommend closure in some kind of way. pretend you died or something.
look at me getting all srs up in this joint.
tl;dr - show her your wang to establish dominance and superiority.
|
|
|
Post by Loogs on Nov 2, 2010 18:44:14 GMT -5
When God gives you friendzoning chicks you FIND A NEW GOD
seriously though chubs has a point, you should probably either accept your friend status or move on. There are lots of other nice and pretty girls out there that don't have boyfrands (or work at 7-Elevens ewwwww) D:
wait they have 7-Elevens in mexico.
|
|
|
Post by Bub@ on Nov 2, 2010 18:47:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't stop showing up this time without a proper goodbye and "thank you for letting me go out with you even if you have a boyfriend". I at least know that much.
I don't consider I have jumped into any zone at all, either (I hope). I mean, we might be casual acquaintances at this point, since we haven't really gone out. But who knows, she might already consider my a "casual friend" already.
I don't really want to be "just" her friend. I guess I don't have too many options.
What about... if I stopped showing up so often, and then jumped in the moment I saw she has no boyfriend anymore? This way, I wouldn't risk getting stuck in the friend's zone forever, though I'm afraid it might make things awkward... Maybe. Ugh. Though choices.
tl;dr boner or no boner?
|
|
|
Post by Bub@ on Nov 2, 2010 18:48:41 GMT -5
We do. They have them over in Japan as well.
|
|
Prime
Saeptum Agent
1%
Agent of Truth
Posts: 399
|
Post by Prime on Nov 3, 2010 2:13:12 GMT -5
All if fair in love and war, and as the men have already said, if you play fair you are friend zoned. If you want her...well, you have to not play fair. You have to pull out that little knife of skeptisism and use it on her, and make her doubt her boi. The way I look at it, if her will isn't strong enough to withstand your subtle work, their relationship wouldn't have lasted anyways. If she's actually happy, she'd never leave him, so you don't ACTUALLY have to feel bad. Though I'm sure a few people would like to stabby me for my nonfairplay comment.
This is something that takes time and you have to build on it, you can't just start insulting her boyfriend and expect her to dump him. You have to discover, through casual conversation, her boyfriends flaws. And then you have to compound them until she's no longer happy being with him. Then, you have to take her, basically ask her out. In an 'if you aren't satisfied, I'm still here...' method. But I will say this, if she IS happy with him, then you stand no fucking chance at all. Sorry mate.
"All if fair in love and war, those with the largest weapons triumpth, and those with the coldest truths prevail. Only a warm heart can keep a woman, and only a cold heart can capture her."
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 3, 2010 8:14:52 GMT -5
they have 7/11 all over copenhagen, too.
but anyway, my thoughts on building a relationship over deceit is that it will only end how it started: with some other guy smooth talking his way in and sweeping her off your feet. You don't strike me as the type that likes those kind of shenanigans, anyway. You'll probably have this nagging feeling that you acted like an asshole.
Another thing is that you're raising her on a pedestal. While understandable, that pretty much never works out in the guy's favor and usually ends up with the girl taking advantage of the guy's "niceness." You are lovestruck, yes, we've all been there, and it's a pretty great place to be, so long as the other girl is single and openly flirting with you. By "openly flirting" i mean touch-barrier-broken type flirting, not just coy comments here and there. (and touch-barrier is beyond hugging)
Also also, going away, then conveniently showing up when she's single is like creeper status. On top of that, you're playing the waiting game, which is not a good game to play. Like loogs said, there are plenty of other nice girls out in the world, and if you're playing the waiting game, you're puting all your eggs in one basket that is being held by someone else. Also also also, if you do show up, you'll probably end up as "rebound" at best and not "long term thang," though if that's what you want, which I don't feel like it is, then go ahead.
but anyway, i guess i feel like i don't have the entire picture. maybe you do still have a chance. i can't really point out any symptoms of friend zone without actually being in your shoes. i mean, the fact that she didn't bring up the boyfriend i feel is a good sign. but the friend-date is not, i think. it is hard to read women, and it is harder to read women through lovestruck eyes.
i am the worst at giving advice.
|
|
|
Post by Beelzebibble on Nov 3, 2010 10:21:59 GMT -5
i mean, the fact that she didn't bring up the boyfriend i feel is a good sign Oooh. No. The only thing you've said I disagree with. It is a very bad sign. It means either (a) she didn't notice Bub@ was interested in her in the first place, hence she felt no reason to establish her taken status, hence FRIEND ZONE FOREVER, or (b) she was prepared to put some flirt at Bub@ even though she was taken, which is way worse.
|
|
|
Post by Tout-Perd on Nov 3, 2010 10:42:37 GMT -5
To be fair, I know that I've avoided mentioning my taken status to girls that have a crush on me. It's less so about Not Knowing They're Interested/Being a Man-Slut, and more about the fact that A. I could have read them wrong, so I'm not going to drop an anvil on them unless I'm certain they're interested and they're actively going after me and B. I don't think a person should define themselves at all by their partner. Sure, I love my lady and I'm overjoyed whenever I get to be with her, but I'm not going to be "My girlfriend this, my girlfriend that."
Unless somebody mentions a relevant subject (Medical schooling, art, PWI, RPing with the Fascere Order), I typically am not one to bring her up.
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 3, 2010 10:53:56 GMT -5
i mean, the fact that she didn't bring up the boyfriend i feel is a good sign Oooh. No. The only thing you've said I disagree with. It is a very bad sign. It means either (a) she didn't notice Bub@ was interested in her in the first place, hence she felt no reason to establish her taken status, hence FRIEND ZONE FOREVER, or (b) she was prepared to put some flirt at Bub@ even though she was taken, which is way worse. That is a good point. I take back everything I've said. Except for showing your wang. Pohatu agrees. He said so.
|
|
|
Post by Beelzebibble on Nov 3, 2010 11:06:55 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 3, 2010 11:20:28 GMT -5
that was like my exact response to lee saying something along the lines of his "special lady" some time ago, but I can't find the post.
maybe it wasn't my response at all then.
but facebook says he is single, and facebook is the true determinator of relationships.
|
|
|
Post by Bub@ on Nov 3, 2010 11:36:07 GMT -5
I know for a fact that I'm not in the friend zone ATM. I'm *about* to get placed into one of two zones, the friend zone, or the creeper zone. Which is why I'm carefully planning my every move, so as to not get stuck into either of them. There might be a third choice why she suggested I ask her out in spite of her having someone already - she is not that happy with him, and they might be close to a break-up. Again, it might just be self-delusion, but they didn't seem that happy to me when I saw them together. It might be that she might be setting up new options for her, and she saw an "option" in me. Which would make this a non-issue, as what comes after is something I could deal with, like I said.
IMO, girls have to be either a) too stupid or b) too evil to ask guys out knowing that these guys want a relationship with them. And I really doubt she's either. Or at least I hope she's not haha.
In case it's relevant at all, the only time she mentioned she had a boyfriend was this one time I asked her why she had makeup, since she never did. She told me she liked to put makeup on sometimes. I told her "there's this guy at school you like right?" since she had school later on that day. She said there wasn't. I asked her again, quite sure that was the case. She said she didn't like the guys at her school, and lightly mention "besides, I have a boyfriend already". First and only time she brought it up. Like Lee said, maybe she's not the kind to be saying it all the time to everyone she sees, or maybe he wasn't too proud of him. Or maybe she didn't want me to know, which is why it only came up after some pressure...
I might just say "fuck it" and end up trying Prime's approach. I mean, girls don't like nice guys, being a nice guy has brought me nothing but shitty results in the past. The previous two girls I was dating ditched me out for a guy which did exactly what you're telling me to do. Sure, I retained my "nice guy" status, did the right thing, yada yada, but guess who got the girl on the end? And who still did, until this very day?
"If she's actually happy, she'd never leave him, so you don't ACTUALLY have to feel bad." Strong words my man.
Girls don't want nice guys. Girls want clever guys, who can be nice. Or complete douchebags. I don't think that would be setting up a relationship over "deceit", but rather playing dirty... [shut up self-delusion!]
|
|
|
Post by The Evil Biscuit on Nov 3, 2010 12:50:54 GMT -5
Date 'em when you need 'em. Otherwise, stop working so hard.
I'm with my current girlfriend for the grades. And the laundry. Ask 90.
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 3, 2010 13:14:06 GMT -5
girls want guys with confidence and balls, not douchebags. "nice" guys just perceive douchebags as such because they're more confident than they are.
but, if you think you have a chance, try it, i guess. you seem pretty intent on this, so if you don't do it, you're going to hate yourself not knowing what could have been. but also make sure that the boyfriend doesn't have a gun/knife/gang.
|
|
|
Post by Beelzebibble on Nov 3, 2010 13:55:02 GMT -5
but also make sure that the boyfriend doesn't have a gun/knife/gang. Read that last one as "gong". I think just to cover all your bases, you better make sure he's not packin' a gong either.
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 3, 2010 14:05:32 GMT -5
Don't forget to cover all your basses, too.
|
|
|
Post by Bub@ on Nov 4, 2010 17:01:21 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I know I'm putting her on a pedestal. I know it's a mistake. But at least I'm aware of it.
I know there's better, cuter girls out there. But god damn, they're so hard to find, which is why I'm trying so hard right now.
|
|
Prime
Saeptum Agent
1%
Agent of Truth
Posts: 399
|
Post by Prime on Nov 5, 2010 19:31:11 GMT -5
Don't let her see you trying to hard man, its creepy. Keep things subtle, the things she smart enough to notice will just make you more endeering. Like Choobeh said, don't be heavy on it until the touch barrier is broken.
|
|
SV
Friendliest Member of ALL TIME
The Friendliest Member Of ALL TIME
Posts: 2,250
|
Post by SV on Nov 10, 2010 3:39:30 GMT -5
i mean, the fact that she didn't bring up the boyfriend i feel is a good sign Oooh. No. The only thing you've said I disagree with. It is a very bad sign. It means either (a) she didn't notice Bub@ was interested in her in the first place, hence she felt no reason to establish her taken status, hence FRIEND ZONE FOREVER, or (b) she was prepared to put some flirt at Bub@ even though she was taken, which is way worse. ^ This. All of this. This specifically. Pohatu knows what's up. I might just say "fuck it" and end up trying Prime's approach. I mean, girls don't like nice guys, being a nice guy has brought me nothing but shitty results in the past. The previous two girls I was dating ditched me out for a guy which did exactly what you're telling me to do. Sure, I retained my "nice guy" status, did the right thing, yada yada, but guess who got the girl on the end? And who still did, until this very day? "If she's actually happy, she'd never leave him, so you don't ACTUALLY have to feel bad." Strong words my man. Girls don't want nice guys. Girls want clever guys, who can be nice. Or complete douchebags. I don't think that would be setting up a relationship over "deceit", but rather playing dirty... [shut up self-delusion!] Hokay, let me explain you somethin'. Girls don't like douches. Really, we don't! The reason that we seem to go for douches so often is this, my chum: Confidence. Nice guys so often come with low self-esteem. Probably from being so nice. Anyway, when we see a douche, we don't see what a douche that douche is. We see "Oh man, look at that guy. He's so confident and outgoing! I bet he's a cool dude with a great personality and isn't a douchebag at all, not in the least." (I'm paraphrasing, but this is pretty close to how it goes down.) What girls* really want: A guy with a compatible personality who respects her and has qualities, interests, and talents that she admires.** * - "Girls" here refers to those of the feminine persuasion who are not just interested in "Ooh, eye candy/status, do want." These are probably the most viable dating option and are therefore uncommon. Please note that, when pursuing one of these Girls, it is best to be certain that you are looking for similar things from her/your potential relationship therewith.** - As far as appearance goes, we wouldn't date you if we weren't physically attracted to you. This doesn't mean you have to be some Greek god of a man. It just means don't look goofy. As mentioned in the subscript above, Girls (as opposed to girls -- note the capital letter; it's for distinguishing between the two) do not use the eye candy/status criteria as the sole means of inclusion/exclusion to her Pool of Dateability.Also, this seems to me to be common sense but I suppose it bears mentioning: If she'd leave someone for you, she'll leave you for someone. It's a behavioral pattern, not a chance thing. I've done it before. After I got to the point where I realized how shitty it was, I stopped. Most girls/people aren't that self-aware. Don't let her see you trying to hard man, its creepy. Keep things subtle, the things she smart enough to notice will just make you more endeering. Like Choobeh said, don't be heavy on it until the touch barrier is broken. What is this? Just. What. I don't even know what to say to this. It makes me make my ._. face. Sigh. Really, in my opinion, your best bet is to keep going by the 7/11. Chat with her, keep those channels open. But stop expecting anything to come of it. If things are as strained between her and her boyfriend as you say, then it might not last too much longer. She knows you're interested and will also notice how you didn't try to guerilla-tactic your way into her love life and she'll probably appreciate it. This will probably play out in your favor. Resorting to Prime strategics probably will not. But but but -- If she's actually happy, she'd never leave him, so you don't ACTUALLY have to feel bad. Oh, but she'll probably lose any respect she has for you, which could quite likely land you in the What-a-douche Zone. Your choice. Granted, it all depends on the girl. I could be completely wrong! But probably not. Date 'em when you need 'em. Otherwise, stop working so hard. I'm with my current girlfriend for the grades. And the laundry. Ask 90. If this is serious, it's...wow. Sort of shitty.
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 10, 2010 5:48:42 GMT -5
SV has boobs. She probably knows what's up
(with her boobs)
PS. Biscuit is dating 90.
|
|
|
Post by Ninety on Nov 10, 2010 10:42:17 GMT -5
Biscuit's girlfriend is like 8 levels cooler than I am.
He also only said that to draw attention away from the fact that she whips him pretty hard sometimes.
|
|
|
Post by The Evil Biscuit on Nov 10, 2010 11:30:54 GMT -5
She does. It's righteous.
|
|
SV
Friendliest Member of ALL TIME
The Friendliest Member Of ALL TIME
Posts: 2,250
|
Post by SV on Nov 10, 2010 15:07:02 GMT -5
In this case, I rescind my judgment. Also, the use of "righteous" made me giggle.
|
|
|
Post by ch00beh on Nov 11, 2010 4:44:20 GMT -5
my slowbro's name is 'Righteous.'
|
|
|
Post by Bub@ on Nov 12, 2010 11:39:24 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for the input guys. I think this topic really needed a boob creature girl's opinion.
I think you both bring up good points, really. The reason why I think Prime's approach might be a good idea, is self-delusion because I don't really plan on going at it like a psychodouche-madman. I'm not going to beat her up with the idea that his current boyfriend is shit, and convince her that I'm a better option, and remind her every second about it. If I'd go down that road, I would be extremely clever and subtle about it, making her ask herself those questions, without the slightest hint of her ever realizing it they all came from me. Which is why she wouldn't lose any respect for me.
It's one of my worst/best abilities. I don't usually do it, because I feel guilty about "manipulating people", even though it's not manipulation, per say. I just... I just wonder what would happen if I would go down this road for once.
Either way, I should expect nothing out of it, SV. You're absolutely right about that. Whatever approach I try, I have to keep that on the back of my mind to avoid getting caught up in shitty deceptions.
Ugh, I'm being really selfish, aren't I? At this rate it's going to be me who ends up being the douche. ._.
|
|