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Post by Tout-Perd on Jul 24, 2007 22:20:43 GMT -5
Unfortunately, folks, I must admit something to you. We have too many forums. Several are redundant and useless, or totally lifeless.
Some of these forums and sortings would be useful on a much more active site. However, we get roughly 50-100 posts a day. We don't need sortings of such a huge ammount.
I'm not going to kill the most important forums. ORP and General proper are fine as is. However, the main boards are too cluttered. Here are my propositions/ideas/nudges: -POSSIBLY killing the General RP forums/just creating a single board for all of them in the ORP/FRP/PRP category. People can tag their topics, and if a continuity actually takes off and persists, it will become a board proper in that category. -Changing the name of the Games section to "Exodus Entertainment" (needs a better name) and rolling the writing archive into that section instead, at the bottom. It's a 0 activity board, so it should not be near the top. -Moving RP discussion into the main forum that ORP, FRP, and PRP are subforums of, to save space even if causing minor confusion. This may have beneficial effects though, by forcing n00bs to go through the forum featuring the rules on their way to RP. -Merging TV and Movies, and terminating the subforums. They don't get much activity anyways, and I don't think we need the distinctions. We don't have seperate forums for normal songs and orchestral pieces, so these two being apart is a vestigial trait. I MAY make them each subforums of a main forum. -I may add drama/acting/theatre to the discussed topics in one of the areas. It wouldn't warrant its own board, but it would be nice for Spiff/Photu/Kaz/Ocelot/Loogs. -If all the trimming measures (or at least RP related) ones are taken, I can delete the Role Play category, move the RP board under the General Board in the general category, and change it to the "Exodus Features" category, which would be SOOO much more fitting, and end the General/RP war.
None of these measure neccesarily will be carried out, but all are being considered. I will not delete any topics, but will move them with love and care to their new homes, if we do remodel Exy.
Oh, and the Coffee Table gets a new lamp, using money we stole from Bulbs.
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Post by Baboon on Jul 24, 2007 22:24:48 GMT -5
Resorting a few of the entirely dead forums or merging a few, sure... I see no advantage to any kind of large overhaul though.
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Post by Tout-Perd on Jul 24, 2007 22:27:17 GMT -5
Yeah, not much of an overhaul. This would just fix the deadwood spacehog RP forums, make a little less scroll, and put General AND RP at the top, making both more accessible for their crowds, and more appealing to guests.
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Post by ch00beh on Jul 24, 2007 23:36:26 GMT -5
I stay out of forum rearrangement. Do what you want.
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Post by Beelzebibble on Jul 24, 2007 23:56:16 GMT -5
My suggestion: Roll together Music, Movies and Television (maybe call it Popular Culture?), roll together Books/Writing and the projected Theatre board (maybe call it Literature?) and roll together Videogames and Non-Electronic Gaming (maybe call it... um... Gaming?).
yes drama is also a part of literature
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Post by Tout-Perd on Jul 25, 2007 0:12:24 GMT -5
That would be even more efficient, but may be too "Dramatic" for some members. We can't really tell until we get some input.
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Post by Loogs on Jul 25, 2007 7:00:52 GMT -5
Why are you the only one allowed to make such drastic changes? We always have to get your approval for such things first, and we're admins too. =/
I guess the mergings kinda clean things up, and I wholeheartedly agree with a Drama board, but RP first?! No offense, but why do you keep trying to push it so hard? General should be first, out of complete and total neutrality. Remember. not everyone RPs. Case in point: Babs, one of the admins here, and RLRL, another frequent poster.
But meh, why should my opinion matter. No other staff member's word here matters except yours, and you're not gonna change anything. >>
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Post by kazkame on Jul 25, 2007 9:36:27 GMT -5
the merging of the gaming thing sounds pretty good
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Post by Tout-Perd on Jul 25, 2007 18:26:01 GMT -5
-If all the trimming measures (or at least RP related) ones are taken, I can delete the Role Play category, move the RP board under the General Board in the general category, and change it to the "Exodus Features" category, which would be SOOO much more fitting, and end the General/RP war. If you ever actually read my propositions instead of automatically insulting them and griping about how I don't pay attention to your heavily slanted ideas that leave us no room to expand, only to grow into a mold of the boards past, you'd have realized that A. RP is only on top right now because people on other sites would come here, look around, and go "Uhhh... Where's da RP? Screw this, I'm joining a Harry Potter site." It is only temporary, and remains until the changes have been accepted/rejected. Right now, I'm on an advertising blitz on several forums, and it doesn't help when our main selling point is obscured by layers of other stuff. A guest would think we care more about SPRITING than about RP. RP, like it or not, is probably the main unique deal with the boards. It might not get many posts, but it's a major reason for a lot of people to come here. and B. As explained in the shoutbox and in THIS TOPIC, which everybody can see the logs of, to Babs, who you speak with regularly, that these changes are so that RP can be near the top while still putting general at the very top, as tradition decrees. So stop your moaning These "Sweeping, overdramatic changes" that you railed so hard against are setting things to the way they should have been initially, and are in no way moving RP over general, just moving it into the category, below general, at the top of the boards. It'll tighten up the boards, making it quicker and easier to post anywhere without issue. Not to mention that tightening up the forums should help the ever neglected games forum get some love.
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Post by Baboon on Jul 25, 2007 18:52:17 GMT -5
Well, can we at least put the General forum on top for the time being, leaving RP there as well? Or, are you deciding the best way to condense RP such that you *can* do this? I'm a little confused. It's a bit annoying how it stands currently, so yeah, the sooner General gets back up there, the happier I'll be...
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Post by Tout-Perd on Jul 25, 2007 19:11:43 GMT -5
Basically, it'll stay this way until we see the opinion of RPers on condensation. If they're mostly for it, we'll do it. If not, well, we'll just move it back. Either way, the RP forums will be back to below general before Friday.
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Post by Loogs on Jul 25, 2007 19:24:48 GMT -5
Lee, I really don't think advertising is what we need the most. We're not trying to make money off of the site, nor do we really want to go into an advertising blitz. Look at Pokecharms. With their trainer card maker came so much unwanted noob activity. Now I'm not saying we don't need new members, but our traditional way is through word of mouth, and so far it's worked beautifully.
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Post by Damien on Jul 26, 2007 5:25:38 GMT -5
No, it hasn't worked at all. We have had a few member join from ye olde pokeschool. As cool as it is to have those people we need more people if we are to grow. I don't see what the problem is with becoming a larger forum? More people to RP with, lengthier discussion, more ideas and feedback. Noobs can be dealt with pretty easily so I don't see any problems. I for one am happy that Lee is advertising the forums and trying to get people visiting.
As for the "Why are you the only one allowed to make such drastic changes? We always have to get your approval for such things first, and we're admins too." comment, Lee is the only one who does anything. He actually goes out of his way to do things for other people and for the forum. I've yet to see another Admin put in as much effort to help better the site. Nevermind the fact that he created and has maintained the boards since day one so that we don't have to post at Chedy's shit hole of a forum.
Now, on to the actual topic. I think the idea is good but we have to be careful when changing a lot of things at once. It's all very well making it better for new members visiting the site but we have to make sure the old, senile (bulbs) members know where everything is without having to hunt for it. You also have to make sure that the sections with very little posts aren't put to the bottom and forgotten about which is likely to happen if they are pushed right down. If that happens they won't get any and will become completely useless then we'll have to go through the whole process again.
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Post by Baboon on Jul 26, 2007 6:59:34 GMT -5
Good morning to you too, Pikachu... =\
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Post by Krazy Glue on Jul 26, 2007 7:00:11 GMT -5
Im all for merging the gaming sections, tv and movies can be happily merged in my opinion. However Im against merging Music with anything else, yes its a small area of the forum, but at the same time, remember what happened the last time they merged music, tv and movies together... we got MTV and don't even get me started on MTV.
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Post by Loogs on Jul 26, 2007 7:00:17 GMT -5
I wholeheartedly disagree. It has worked, and notice that's how we've gotten most of our members. I've yet to see a substantial amount of members join due to advertisement. And we haven't done anything for the forums? It's because we don't have a chance to! Anything me or Babs would do would contradict anything that Lee does, because we more or less want to stick to the way the Exodus looks now, and Lee wants to go expansion-happy. And I wish to remind you that that was what did Chedy in. He, like Lee, had good intentions, but in the end, we just felt betrayed, and that is what I'm starting to feel. Anyone can create a forum at Proboards, so quite frankly it's not Lee's biggest achievement. In fact, I don't credit him with creating the Exodus at all. I credit all of us for that, not just Lee. We all created every little bit that makes it what it is. Our(me and Babs's) duties as admin is to decide what's best for the forums, but we can't exactly do that when what we think is best is what the head admin doesn't want. We're all for advertising and bringing in new members, but when that involves remodeling the boards to conform to popular demand, that's completely going against the Exodus's roots, and that's practically betrayal. Pikachu, I am very offended by your comment. Babs and I have done quite a bit for the forums. He's been our best diplomat and his negotiations helped defuse the Elliot bomb, not to mention his unmatched reputation as the neutral admin. He's also on the brink of starting Match Game. I've brought in a good bulk of people to the Exodus, responsible for having Babs, Spiff, Vaxx, Pope, Kaz, Ocelot, SV, and many more here. I've also designed some of the skins you use, and have actually gone out of my way to design smilies for them. Even ch00bs, who's not an admin, goes out of his way to make some sweet skins. Oh, but it's much easier to look down on me because I'm just some stupid little kid who never listens, instead of maybe at least listening to me.
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Post by Baboon on Jul 26, 2007 7:15:22 GMT -5
We're comparing two different things. Some of us would like the Exodus to stay as it has for the past year, perhaps with some small improvements, and some of us would like a whole new big thing. I can't begin to express how much I don't want this place to change. Bringing in some new members *isn't* much change, and I'm not against it. I'm not about to say that Lee is Chedy, but hopefully you can see where at least *some* of this is coming from. And as for your comment about Steph and me, I don't even know where to start. The fact is, no, I don't have one large physical thing to show for my being an admin (until Match Game starts very shortly). I'm not arguing that. However, the fact that you equate this with my being worthless...? From the beginning, Steph and I have worked to settle disputes, negotiate, and work with Lee on how best to move the boards forward. This would be a very different place if the two of us weren't around, and I really don't appreciate the condescendingness.
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Post by ch00beh on Jul 26, 2007 12:53:04 GMT -5
Let's list Pikachu's achievements then:
Oh wait, there are none! Too busy having a life to contribute, I forgot.
Don't act all high and mighty when you're neither high nor mighty.
And anyways, Loog's constant complaining has done something. Remember, squeaky wheel gets the grease. At the very least, just her complaining alone has called to attention that the cart's wheel will come to a crashing halt and several of those fresh produce things on top will fall off.
Anyways, this is an RP forum, so rearranging the boards such that RP is at the top is a generally good call. I don't see how the rearrangement is like advertisement.
Pikachu, I'd be quoting the rule about contradicting other staff members, but I just violated it. It was rather satisfying.
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Post by Loogs on Jul 26, 2007 12:56:00 GMT -5
Anyways, this is an RP forum, so rearranging the boards such that RP is at the top is a generally good call. I don't see how the rearrangement is like advertisement. Not really advertisement, just rearranges made to suit a certain audience. And I never felt as if this was an RP forum, but rather Pokeschool without the Pokemon focus. I've always wanted to keep that image and it would make me sad if we were to become biased towards RP. =( All I'm asking is to please keep the neutrality. Revolutionize all you want in the RP boards, just don't turn it into our main focus. General at the top was our symbol of neutrality... However, I'm in the minority here, seeing as around 95% of the boards RP regularly, and the head admin himself is an RP vet, so essentially, I'm fighting a losing battle. So I guess my final word is, do what you will. I've stated my suggestion, and it's up to you whether you take it or not. As of now, this is out of my hands. And yeah....we did violate tons of unwritten rules here. But hey, when haven't we. =p
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Post by ch00beh on Jul 26, 2007 13:26:36 GMT -5
actually, they were written down. Oops. ^_^
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Post by Tout-Perd on Jul 26, 2007 20:39:31 GMT -5
Loogs, before you go on and on about the whole ignoring your suggestions, may I simply say that your only suggestions are "Make a main page." and "Don't change anything." And I've been working on designing materials for the main page, even if they've not been showcased. And I haven't changed much. I've dabbled in additional RP forums, and I momentarilly swapped up the order to try and guilt certain people into RPing instead of letting their writing skills fester and fade. Both of these were temporary trial ideas, used mainly just to see the results for better ideas. And when you make changes, I leave them up. I do not delete your skins or added forums. I'll work with you on the new site.
The simple rule for anybody being an admin is: I've given you the power. If you really want to do something, I'm not going to stop you unless it's idiocy. So, don't go and think I'm denying you permission to anything. I don't think I've ever said no to any of your ideas before, except for the "Let's become isolationist!" thing which seemingly only you support. Everybody else won't mind new members. So let us try and get them. A large portion of the old boards has moved on, grown out of the community. You won't get them back. You can't reclaim the old days, before your life became a piece of shit that you have to muster all of your willpower to drag yourself through. We can't have the golden age back, but we can try and at least get a silver age. Granted, when it came to administrative rights, you two did all you could to block Prime. Sometimes that was wise, but other times fairly ill advised. Believe me when I say that major things get reviewed. It took me around a month to fully flesh out and implement EP, and I let the entire board review the Exy Club idea and let them decide against it. The only major changes that I've made without consultations are adding the APCARP forum, and putting the RP boards up for a little while.
I'd just like to note that the RP boards are seemingly considerably more active since the move, and General (proper) has not suffered an activity loss. The scrap heap seems a wee bit slow, but it tends to lag randomly, so it doesn't say much to me. This change has only increased activity. If you want to whine about more lively boards, then be my guest.
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Post by Baboon on Jul 26, 2007 21:03:05 GMT -5
In no way are two days of posts representative of anything. I really doubt this will increase activity much. There aren't nearly enough people here to have those who aren't at least somewhat in contact with the staff. This makes actions like this have fewer results. (Fewer doesn't mean bad, it just means it's not as efficient as could be.) Also, to touch on the other topic here, go ahead and give me hell for saying this, but I really don't think Steph is out of line on this issue. Aside from simply not understanding the situation in her first post, she hasn't attacked anyone, didn't instigate anything, and is instead giving a viewpoint often not seen. I'm disappointed by the fact that as soon as someone states they think we don't need a ton of new members, they're instantly looked upon as wanting absolutely no change and wanting the forums to freeze in time. I may have a reputation of being the Switzerland of the boards, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and let our opinions get torn apart and ignored.
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Post by kazkame on Jul 26, 2007 21:32:11 GMT -5
Can you see whats this is doing to us it's tearing this familt apart
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Post by Tout-Perd on Jul 26, 2007 21:32:51 GMT -5
Y'see, the thing is, is that's what Steph wants. For us to pretty much entirely only bring back old members. She disdains the idea of bringing in anybody new with any outreach barring personal referals, and even then prefers mainly the old members, regardless of merit. (Honestly, one or two of those suggestions I saw in the old member return topic... Why not just invite Wolf?)
The reason why the Snitz did so well was that it managed to get a stream of members passing through. Like rocks carried in a stream, some would tumble through and stir things up, but continue moving on, and not stay. Others would become lodged in the bank and become a permanent fixture.
What I'm trying to do is to restore that stream. We do indeed have a great community here. It's solid as is. And my goal is to make it the core of a slightly bigger thing. The Snitz pulled down more posts in a day then we did, and it was a good thing. New members came through, bringing new ideas and new things to discuss. And throughout it all, we had a solid core, a heart of permanent members. This meant that there were many more things to discuss in General and plots to write in RP, and one did not need to wait four hours for a single response.
One could drown themselves in the Snitz, spend an entire blissful day just browsing and discussing. That did not just come from the core members. It came from the entire community.
A forum without new blood is missing something significant.
I've met you Old Member seekers halfway with our attempts to restore the old guard. Now I ask that you swallow your pride and help me get the other half of the equation.
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Post by Baboon on Jul 26, 2007 22:08:53 GMT -5
Ah, but to swallow your pride, you need to think you're above doing something. Don't put words in my mouth. Anyway, yes, I know where you're coming from and I do agree with some of it... I never did want this going into another argument, so let's just pick this up on MSN or something.
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Post by Damien on Jul 27, 2007 5:32:54 GMT -5
Steph I've know you since you were what, 12? Have you ever know me to be like that?
I never once said that, nor is that what I meant. I simply mean that Lee shouldn't be attacked for what he's doing when he is the only one doing anything major to get us more activity. I understand that yourself and Steph have done a fair bit for the current community but my comment had nothing to do with that.
If it came across as if I was saying that you were worthless then I am sorry, it wasn't intended.
I wasn't acting high and mighty. At least you acknowledged that I have a reason for not contributing. =D rofl
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